<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>
	Comments on: Acceptance Comes Before Revelation	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation</link>
	<description>Orthodox and gay</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2023 03:57:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>
	hourly	</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>
	1	</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>
		By: John		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-83161</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2023 03:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-83161</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You people are all under the influence of the devil.

Open your eyes and see how the wicked one is leading you into spiritual damnation. 

Being gay is not a gift from God. God blessed for the Union between a MAN and a WOMAN. Read the scriptures- both Old and New. Does Sodom and Gomorrah not make you realize that you will be numbered among them? 

Homosexuality is a sin! Repent! Repent! Repent! God loves each and one of you but please understand that you’re being misguided and less away by the devil. Don’t let your pride blind you in thinking what you are doing is acceptable before God. It’s abominable! 

I pray that you wake up spiritually and realize that you’re not doing the will of God by the will of the one who’s trying to have your soul in Hell forever.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You people are all under the influence of the devil.</p>
<p>Open your eyes and see how the wicked one is leading you into spiritual damnation. </p>
<p>Being gay is not a gift from God. God blessed for the Union between a MAN and a WOMAN. Read the scriptures- both Old and New. Does Sodom and Gomorrah not make you realize that you will be numbered among them? </p>
<p>Homosexuality is a sin! Repent! Repent! Repent! God loves each and one of you but please understand that you’re being misguided and less away by the devil. Don’t let your pride blind you in thinking what you are doing is acceptable before God. It’s abominable! </p>
<p>I pray that you wake up spiritually and realize that you’re not doing the will of God by the will of the one who’s trying to have your soul in Hell forever.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: andre		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-37936</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[andre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2015 23:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-37936</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bob,

I thank you for your comment on the website.  I do have to disagree with you when you write that there are ancient and unchanging teachings of the Church. To name just a few: the acceptance of the Western Paschalia of the Church of Finland, the &quot;revised&quot; Julian calendar in use by the Church of Greece and many in the diaspora, the uncanonical state of the Churches in the &quot;barbarian lands&quot; - North and South America, allowing the marriages between Orthodox Christians and Protestants - unknown in canon law.... I could go on and on with volumes of changes the Church has accepted without official decree in the area of the mysteries, theology and pastoral practice. 

And so, as the Lord reveals His wonders through science and other study, the Orthodox Church will see that God in His wisdom created gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people in His image. The LGBT community knows this already, we await for the Church to catch up. 

I bid you peace,

Andriy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>I thank you for your comment on the website.  I do have to disagree with you when you write that there are ancient and unchanging teachings of the Church. To name just a few: the acceptance of the Western Paschalia of the Church of Finland, the &#8220;revised&#8221; Julian calendar in use by the Church of Greece and many in the diaspora, the uncanonical state of the Churches in the &#8220;barbarian lands&#8221; &#8211; North and South America, allowing the marriages between Orthodox Christians and Protestants &#8211; unknown in canon law&#8230;. I could go on and on with volumes of changes the Church has accepted without official decree in the area of the mysteries, theology and pastoral practice. </p>
<p>And so, as the Lord reveals His wonders through science and other study, the Orthodox Church will see that God in His wisdom created gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people in His image. The LGBT community knows this already, we await for the Church to catch up. </p>
<p>I bid you peace,</p>
<p>Andriy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Bob		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-37895</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2015 04:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-37895</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/news/2012/marriage-and-moral-crisis 

Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Recently, the public discussion about marriage and about the propriety of its redefinition has once again become prominent. It is a discussion that is certain to continue for a long time yet. In light of this, the Assembly reaffirms the ancient and unchanging teaching of the Church and invites the faithful to read the important statement below, issued by SCOBA in 2003 and as relevant and binding today as when first published.


SCOBA Statement on Moral Crisis in Our Nation

Wednesday, August 13, 2003

As members of the Standing Conference of the Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas (SCOBA), representing more than 5 million Orthodox Christians in the United States, Canada and Mexico, we are deeply concerned about recent developments regarding &quot;same sex unions.&quot;

The Orthodox Christian teaching on marriage and sexuality, firmly grounded in Holy Scripture, 2000 years of church tradition, and canon law, holds that marriage consists in the conjugal union of a man and a woman, and that authentic marriage is blessed by God as a sacrament of the Church. Neither Scripture nor Holy Tradition blesses or sanctions such a union between persons of the same sex.

Holy Scripture attests that God creates man and woman in His own image and likeness (Genesis 1:27-31), that those called to do so might enjoy a conjugal union that ideally leads to procreation. While not every marriage is blessed with the birth of children, every such union exists to create of a man and a woman a new reality of &quot;one flesh.&quot; This can only involve a relationship based on gender complementarity. &quot;God made them male and female ... So they are no longer two but one flesh&quot; (Mark 10:6-8).

The union between a man and a woman in the Sacrament of Marriage reflects the union between Christ and His Church (Ephesians 5:21-33). As such, marriage is necessarily monogamous and heterosexual. Within this union, sexual relations between a husband and wife are to be cherished and protected as a sacred expression of their love that has been blessed by God. Such was God&#039;s plan for His human creatures from the very beginning. Today, however, this divine purpose is increasingly questioned, challenged or denied, even within some faith communities, as social and political pressures work to normalize, legalize and even sanctify same-sex unions.

The Orthodox Church cannot and will not bless same-sex unions. Whereas marriage between a man and a woman is a sacred institution ordained by God, homosexual union is not. Like adultery and fornication, homosexual acts are condemned by Scripture (Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10). This being said, however, we must stress that persons with a homosexual orientation are to be cared for with the same mercy and love that is bestowed by our Lord Jesus Christ upon all of humanity. All persons are called by God to grow spiritually and morally toward holiness.

As heads of the Orthodox Churches in America and members of SCOBA, we speak with one voice in expressing our deep concern over recent developments. And we pray fervently that the traditional form of marriage, as an enduring and committed union only between a man and a woman, will be honored.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/news/2012/marriage-and-moral-crisis" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/news/2012/marriage-and-moral-crisis</a> </p>
<p>Wednesday, May 16, 2012</p>
<p>Recently, the public discussion about marriage and about the propriety of its redefinition has once again become prominent. It is a discussion that is certain to continue for a long time yet. In light of this, the Assembly reaffirms the ancient and unchanging teaching of the Church and invites the faithful to read the important statement below, issued by SCOBA in 2003 and as relevant and binding today as when first published.</p>
<p>SCOBA Statement on Moral Crisis in Our Nation</p>
<p>Wednesday, August 13, 2003</p>
<p>As members of the Standing Conference of the Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas (SCOBA), representing more than 5 million Orthodox Christians in the United States, Canada and Mexico, we are deeply concerned about recent developments regarding &#8220;same sex unions.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Orthodox Christian teaching on marriage and sexuality, firmly grounded in Holy Scripture, 2000 years of church tradition, and canon law, holds that marriage consists in the conjugal union of a man and a woman, and that authentic marriage is blessed by God as a sacrament of the Church. Neither Scripture nor Holy Tradition blesses or sanctions such a union between persons of the same sex.</p>
<p>Holy Scripture attests that God creates man and woman in His own image and likeness (Genesis 1:27-31), that those called to do so might enjoy a conjugal union that ideally leads to procreation. While not every marriage is blessed with the birth of children, every such union exists to create of a man and a woman a new reality of &#8220;one flesh.&#8221; This can only involve a relationship based on gender complementarity. &#8220;God made them male and female &#8230; So they are no longer two but one flesh&#8221; (Mark 10:6-8).</p>
<p>The union between a man and a woman in the Sacrament of Marriage reflects the union between Christ and His Church (Ephesians 5:21-33). As such, marriage is necessarily monogamous and heterosexual. Within this union, sexual relations between a husband and wife are to be cherished and protected as a sacred expression of their love that has been blessed by God. Such was God&#8217;s plan for His human creatures from the very beginning. Today, however, this divine purpose is increasingly questioned, challenged or denied, even within some faith communities, as social and political pressures work to normalize, legalize and even sanctify same-sex unions.</p>
<p>The Orthodox Church cannot and will not bless same-sex unions. Whereas marriage between a man and a woman is a sacred institution ordained by God, homosexual union is not. Like adultery and fornication, homosexual acts are condemned by Scripture (Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10). This being said, however, we must stress that persons with a homosexual orientation are to be cared for with the same mercy and love that is bestowed by our Lord Jesus Christ upon all of humanity. All persons are called by God to grow spiritually and morally toward holiness.</p>
<p>As heads of the Orthodox Churches in America and members of SCOBA, we speak with one voice in expressing our deep concern over recent developments. And we pray fervently that the traditional form of marriage, as an enduring and committed union only between a man and a woman, will be honored.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: andre		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33406</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[andre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-33406</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33400&quot;&gt;Elayna&lt;/a&gt;.

Dearest Elayna,

Thank you for your email and kind words of support.  It means a lot to me and this ministry.  Congratulations on your wedding, after 17 years - amazing!  My husband and I were married last year after 13 years together.  These stories abound. 
Your words about the Church leaving you are true.  Many Orthodox Christians who are LGBTQ feel the same way.  This website receives numerous emails like yours of people wanting to be part of, or go back to the church, and yet feel like the Church has abandoned them for who God made them to be. 
What you feel about he Church is pure - it comes from God, your upbringing and your inner soul and conscience. I would not let that expire, let it re-ignite and perhaps flourish again. Find an Orthodox Church which feels right.  It may take a longer drive, but you will know it when you feel it.  My suggestion is not to trust the priest immediately with all of your information. Take some time.  You have already made your confession to God, other people (your wife and friends probably - even me) and so the Lord has forgiven you. The next steps will come in time.
I do wish you are your wife much happiness.  I bid you inner peace and true joy.
Please stay in touch!
Andriy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33400">Elayna</a>.</p>
<p>Dearest Elayna,</p>
<p>Thank you for your email and kind words of support.  It means a lot to me and this ministry.  Congratulations on your wedding, after 17 years &#8211; amazing!  My husband and I were married last year after 13 years together.  These stories abound.<br />
Your words about the Church leaving you are true.  Many Orthodox Christians who are LGBTQ feel the same way.  This website receives numerous emails like yours of people wanting to be part of, or go back to the church, and yet feel like the Church has abandoned them for who God made them to be.<br />
What you feel about he Church is pure &#8211; it comes from God, your upbringing and your inner soul and conscience. I would not let that expire, let it re-ignite and perhaps flourish again. Find an Orthodox Church which feels right.  It may take a longer drive, but you will know it when you feel it.  My suggestion is not to trust the priest immediately with all of your information. Take some time.  You have already made your confession to God, other people (your wife and friends probably &#8211; even me) and so the Lord has forgiven you. The next steps will come in time.<br />
I do wish you are your wife much happiness.  I bid you inner peace and true joy.<br />
Please stay in touch!<br />
Andriy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Elayna		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33400</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elayna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2014 00:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-33400</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My parents were both first generation Russians.  I grew up in the Russian Orthodox Church in upstate NY.  My parents both died when I was 25 years old and I have not been to church since.  I am now in my late 50&#039;s, I have been with my wife for 17 years.  We were married 2 years ago  by a local Mayor.  I truly wish I could return to the Russian Orthodox Church.  I miss the beauty of the Church and the service brings peace to my soul.  I sometimes wonder what would happen if I went to confession and admitted to the priest that I not only tried to commit suicide in my last 20&#039;s but, that I&#039;ve accepted myself as God made me and have married my life partner - my wife.  I didn&#039;t leave my Church, it left me!  Thank you for this site!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My parents were both first generation Russians.  I grew up in the Russian Orthodox Church in upstate NY.  My parents both died when I was 25 years old and I have not been to church since.  I am now in my late 50&#8217;s, I have been with my wife for 17 years.  We were married 2 years ago  by a local Mayor.  I truly wish I could return to the Russian Orthodox Church.  I miss the beauty of the Church and the service brings peace to my soul.  I sometimes wonder what would happen if I went to confession and admitted to the priest that I not only tried to commit suicide in my last 20&#8217;s but, that I&#8217;ve accepted myself as God made me and have married my life partner &#8211; my wife.  I didn&#8217;t leave my Church, it left me!  Thank you for this site!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33336</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2014 19:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-33336</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Although I was initially drawn into the Orthodox Church by its scholarship, reading theological treatise, and erudition, why I eventually chose to be christened and join the Orthodox Church was because of the profound sense of prayer I experienced in the church during services.   

I spent many years considering a monastic life, before and after joining the Orthodox Church.  I prayed about it and hung out in monasteries for years. I wrote much revered Orthodox scholars and mystics in the Church, all of whom suggested the life of celibacy for me.   I was terribly torn because I came to understand that I was not called to the monastic life.  The only reason I wanted to be a monk was because I was gay and wanted to be accepted as an Orthodox person, continue attending church and be treated like any other member of the Orthodox Church.  I wanted the easy way.  I would be accepted as a gay monk in the Church. 

I learned to hate myself.  I was disowned by my family when I came out as gay, long before I joined the Orthodox Church.  I was criticized by people in the gay community for wanting to be a part of a church that despised and harmed me.  My prayer life was so important to me.  I love God and prayed the Jesus prayer, but my desire for companionship with a man never went away.  Suicidal thoughts besieged me.  My love for God has never wavered. My self-hatred, because of my sexuality, became overwhelming.  I had to stop, stop, stop, Everything!  Except praying, I never stopped praying.  

I am surrounded now by people who love me and have been helping me to learn to love myself.  I go on an occasional date every now and again thanks to social media sources. Some find me quite amusing dating men and not having sex by the first date or second or third!  I am still an Orthodox Christian, though I have not attended church in a long while.  I would like very much to go to the nearest Orthodox Church, but the area in which I live is as extremely socially conservative as the deep South.  I am too fragile emotionally to attempt to go to an Orthodox Church anyway. The question of whether or not I am married or have kids will inevitably arise and I can not deflect the conversation without feeling as if I am lying.  Eventually I will have to say that I am gay and I don&#039;t think I can handle the emotional strain that will have upon me.  

Thank you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I was initially drawn into the Orthodox Church by its scholarship, reading theological treatise, and erudition, why I eventually chose to be christened and join the Orthodox Church was because of the profound sense of prayer I experienced in the church during services.   </p>
<p>I spent many years considering a monastic life, before and after joining the Orthodox Church.  I prayed about it and hung out in monasteries for years. I wrote much revered Orthodox scholars and mystics in the Church, all of whom suggested the life of celibacy for me.   I was terribly torn because I came to understand that I was not called to the monastic life.  The only reason I wanted to be a monk was because I was gay and wanted to be accepted as an Orthodox person, continue attending church and be treated like any other member of the Orthodox Church.  I wanted the easy way.  I would be accepted as a gay monk in the Church. </p>
<p>I learned to hate myself.  I was disowned by my family when I came out as gay, long before I joined the Orthodox Church.  I was criticized by people in the gay community for wanting to be a part of a church that despised and harmed me.  My prayer life was so important to me.  I love God and prayed the Jesus prayer, but my desire for companionship with a man never went away.  Suicidal thoughts besieged me.  My love for God has never wavered. My self-hatred, because of my sexuality, became overwhelming.  I had to stop, stop, stop, Everything!  Except praying, I never stopped praying.  </p>
<p>I am surrounded now by people who love me and have been helping me to learn to love myself.  I go on an occasional date every now and again thanks to social media sources. Some find me quite amusing dating men and not having sex by the first date or second or third!  I am still an Orthodox Christian, though I have not attended church in a long while.  I would like very much to go to the nearest Orthodox Church, but the area in which I live is as extremely socially conservative as the deep South.  I am too fragile emotionally to attempt to go to an Orthodox Church anyway. The question of whether or not I am married or have kids will inevitably arise and I can not deflect the conversation without feeling as if I am lying.  Eventually I will have to say that I am gay and I don&#8217;t think I can handle the emotional strain that will have upon me.  </p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: andre		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33334</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[andre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2014 00:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-33334</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33332&quot;&gt;Vel Santic&lt;/a&gt;.

Vel,
Thank you so very much for your very erudite, thoughtful and sincere comments to Robert as well as your defense of me.  The website does get a fair amount of such emails and comments and yet we receive many more that thank us for this simple ministry of support and understanding.  Please stay in touch.  I bid you peace and joy in this season of contemplation of the Crucified and Resurrected Christ.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33332">Vel Santic</a>.</p>
<p>Vel,<br />
Thank you so very much for your very erudite, thoughtful and sincere comments to Robert as well as your defense of me.  The website does get a fair amount of such emails and comments and yet we receive many more that thank us for this simple ministry of support and understanding.  Please stay in touch.  I bid you peace and joy in this season of contemplation of the Crucified and Resurrected Christ.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Vel Santic		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33332</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vel Santic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-33332</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The commenter Robert (Athanasius) starts off first equalizing a mere same-sex attraction with alcoholism, gluttony and the lust (not attraction, but lust) of heterosexuals and then goes on saying that he&#039;s not here to judge (even though he already grossly did) but Christ will, but in the very next sentence he again judges same-sex sttraction as destructive. The said commenter has deeply confusing understandings of &quot;corrupt natures&quot; of which he ascribes a part of them to himself too, but conveniently for himself he created the rigid hierarchy of corrupt natures in which his is like pardonnable and acceptable as is heterosexual, while the homosexual one- is totally out of the league, according to him. Typical heterosexISTIC schematization and mental self-gratification even when or if not outright admitted as such. Needless to say that it&#039;s observable that Robert (Athanasius)&#039;s presentations of corrupt natures are abutting on contradictions, even from the aspects of christian orthodox onthology, as it is totally unconcerned with presence or lack of harm. Even if Robert (Athanasius)&#039;s notion of &quot;corrupt natures&quot; is equalized with notions of sin, it&#039;s clear that the said commenter purposely misunderstands i.e. twists and distorts Andriy&#039;s points as Andriy nowhere denied the inherent sinfulness of every human being indeed procreated on after Adam, well, one of the strongest messages of Christianity is that Christ had died for human sins. But the Holy Spirit gives us reason and mind to discern the human sins which are inalienable part of human nature and in which, for example, 3 adult human consensual sexual orientations fall: heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual  that don&#039;t per se cause harm to others or to oneself and are inalienable part of (fallen, corrupt) human nature, as opposed to the inhuman, satanical sins that explicitly cause harm, danger, death, pain (for example, murders, rapes, tortures, thefts... but also lies, distortions, hypocrisy, injustices, stereotypes, prejudices, self-righteousness... hear, hear oh Robert (Athanasius)). To somebody who is indeed on a more studious level even only familiar with the basics of christian ethics, these notions shouldn&#039;t even have to be explained...just like it shouldn&#039;t even have to be explained that Andriy&#039;s claim of gays also been created in the image of God is only symbolic reply congruent with standard christian phraseology of all humans created in the image of God onto which Robert (Athanasius) most probably never jumped to attack when routinely uttered by church officials, but if someone dares to include gay human beings in all those humans created in the image of God, oh hell obviously breaks loose in Robert (Athanasius)&#039;s head which is just another indicator of Robert (Athanasius)&#039;s sad homophobia and heterosexISM. Then, Robert (Athanasius) explicitly goes into church-ideological-ultraconservative-political pursuits of trying to intimidate Andriy and chase him out of Christian Orthodox spiritual realm. Stifling and shutting Andriy&#039;s voice up becomes the main mission of Robert (Athanasius)&#039;s activity here. And in that pursuit, Robert (Athanasius) lays down orders, commands and conditions, nearly, threats to Andriy. Typical. In that pursuit of his, he i.e. Robert (Athanasius) fails to see that his attribution of properties to cannonical fathers totally resembles pharisees&#039; claims about themselves and the religion that Jesus was accused of undermining, just like Andriy is accused of by Robert (Athanasius). Typical, also, modus operandi of religious heterosexists and antigays. Then in 14. Robert (Athanasius) goes back on to purporting the earlier points of &quot;corruptedness&quot; essentially misunderstanding, rather, purposely misinterpreting Andriy&#039;s expressions of God&#039;s gifts, so, Robert (Athanasius)&#039;s circle of clustershagging this topic comment thread goes rolling all over again like it started all the while ascribing his own traits of disingeniousness and twisting of words to Andriy and he i.e. Robert (Athanasius) starts losing even more of composure as he resorts in implicit name-callings to Andriy. Then, repeats the other part of the same cycle of church-ideological based attempts of intimidating Andriy into leaving Christian Orthodoxy, then stumbles on attempts of lashing out at DNA studies about the inborn nature of homosexuality totally misrepresenting and distorting the conclusions how it supposedly &quot;isn&#039;t&#039; something persons are born with. Then, Robert (Athanasius) attempts to ABuse, just like what &quot;psychiatrists&quot; in Stalin times did or inquisition agents of Middle Ages did, the psychological games of suggestion how Andriy and gays are afflicted with most difficult afflictions and like sadistically peering into the eyes (like he said, penetrating...) of the target with those offensive suggestions he hopes Andriy and gays will succumb like hypnotized into admitting so. All that wrapped in the most hypocritical, inquisition-like pretending of prayer.... And then, I guess, out of the rabid state he fell in, Robert (Athanasius) can&#039;t discern which is Petri and which is Andriy so he addresses Petri as Andriy with additional hypocrisy, then, personal and general antigay insults (&quot;gays are in delusion and denial...&quot; typical) and AGAIN goes back onto church-ideological-ultraconservative-political pursuits of trying to intimidate Andriy and chase him out of Christian Orthodox spiritual realm, spicing it up with additional personal insults to Andriy. And all that, only to finally shut up because the Last Word is anyways God&#039;s. And, had Robert (Athanasius) genuinely believed that the last word is God&#039;s, he wouldn&#039;t have done all this he&#039;s done but he would have left it to God, much sooner and earlier.  

Wow, Robert (Athanasius), you certainly did employ variety of methods of attempts of abuse in communications here, religious-ideological and political antigay right can surely be like proud with you, notwithstanding that you, just like those that more or less agree with you, only showed the elementary confusion and lack of solid knowledge of the faith you claim to have and know about. About your desperate attempts to provoke to get Andriy out of tact and your Robert (Athanasius) particular type of trolling here, not even to spend much more words.  


@Andriy, Dear Andriy, may God bless you, I found with God&#039;s help this site and I am thankful.
Keep up unabashedly the great Inclusive and God and Justice-Loving Christian Orthodox work!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The commenter Robert (Athanasius) starts off first equalizing a mere same-sex attraction with alcoholism, gluttony and the lust (not attraction, but lust) of heterosexuals and then goes on saying that he&#8217;s not here to judge (even though he already grossly did) but Christ will, but in the very next sentence he again judges same-sex sttraction as destructive. The said commenter has deeply confusing understandings of &#8220;corrupt natures&#8221; of which he ascribes a part of them to himself too, but conveniently for himself he created the rigid hierarchy of corrupt natures in which his is like pardonnable and acceptable as is heterosexual, while the homosexual one- is totally out of the league, according to him. Typical heterosexISTIC schematization and mental self-gratification even when or if not outright admitted as such. Needless to say that it&#8217;s observable that Robert (Athanasius)&#8217;s presentations of corrupt natures are abutting on contradictions, even from the aspects of christian orthodox onthology, as it is totally unconcerned with presence or lack of harm. Even if Robert (Athanasius)&#8217;s notion of &#8220;corrupt natures&#8221; is equalized with notions of sin, it&#8217;s clear that the said commenter purposely misunderstands i.e. twists and distorts Andriy&#8217;s points as Andriy nowhere denied the inherent sinfulness of every human being indeed procreated on after Adam, well, one of the strongest messages of Christianity is that Christ had died for human sins. But the Holy Spirit gives us reason and mind to discern the human sins which are inalienable part of human nature and in which, for example, 3 adult human consensual sexual orientations fall: heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual  that don&#8217;t per se cause harm to others or to oneself and are inalienable part of (fallen, corrupt) human nature, as opposed to the inhuman, satanical sins that explicitly cause harm, danger, death, pain (for example, murders, rapes, tortures, thefts&#8230; but also lies, distortions, hypocrisy, injustices, stereotypes, prejudices, self-righteousness&#8230; hear, hear oh Robert (Athanasius)). To somebody who is indeed on a more studious level even only familiar with the basics of christian ethics, these notions shouldn&#8217;t even have to be explained&#8230;just like it shouldn&#8217;t even have to be explained that Andriy&#8217;s claim of gays also been created in the image of God is only symbolic reply congruent with standard christian phraseology of all humans created in the image of God onto which Robert (Athanasius) most probably never jumped to attack when routinely uttered by church officials, but if someone dares to include gay human beings in all those humans created in the image of God, oh hell obviously breaks loose in Robert (Athanasius)&#8217;s head which is just another indicator of Robert (Athanasius)&#8217;s sad homophobia and heterosexISM. Then, Robert (Athanasius) explicitly goes into church-ideological-ultraconservative-political pursuits of trying to intimidate Andriy and chase him out of Christian Orthodox spiritual realm. Stifling and shutting Andriy&#8217;s voice up becomes the main mission of Robert (Athanasius)&#8217;s activity here. And in that pursuit, Robert (Athanasius) lays down orders, commands and conditions, nearly, threats to Andriy. Typical. In that pursuit of his, he i.e. Robert (Athanasius) fails to see that his attribution of properties to cannonical fathers totally resembles pharisees&#8217; claims about themselves and the religion that Jesus was accused of undermining, just like Andriy is accused of by Robert (Athanasius). Typical, also, modus operandi of religious heterosexists and antigays. Then in 14. Robert (Athanasius) goes back on to purporting the earlier points of &#8220;corruptedness&#8221; essentially misunderstanding, rather, purposely misinterpreting Andriy&#8217;s expressions of God&#8217;s gifts, so, Robert (Athanasius)&#8217;s circle of clustershagging this topic comment thread goes rolling all over again like it started all the while ascribing his own traits of disingeniousness and twisting of words to Andriy and he i.e. Robert (Athanasius) starts losing even more of composure as he resorts in implicit name-callings to Andriy. Then, repeats the other part of the same cycle of church-ideological based attempts of intimidating Andriy into leaving Christian Orthodoxy, then stumbles on attempts of lashing out at DNA studies about the inborn nature of homosexuality totally misrepresenting and distorting the conclusions how it supposedly &#8220;isn&#8217;t&#8217; something persons are born with. Then, Robert (Athanasius) attempts to ABuse, just like what &#8220;psychiatrists&#8221; in Stalin times did or inquisition agents of Middle Ages did, the psychological games of suggestion how Andriy and gays are afflicted with most difficult afflictions and like sadistically peering into the eyes (like he said, penetrating&#8230;) of the target with those offensive suggestions he hopes Andriy and gays will succumb like hypnotized into admitting so. All that wrapped in the most hypocritical, inquisition-like pretending of prayer&#8230;. And then, I guess, out of the rabid state he fell in, Robert (Athanasius) can&#8217;t discern which is Petri and which is Andriy so he addresses Petri as Andriy with additional hypocrisy, then, personal and general antigay insults (&#8220;gays are in delusion and denial&#8230;&#8221; typical) and AGAIN goes back onto church-ideological-ultraconservative-political pursuits of trying to intimidate Andriy and chase him out of Christian Orthodox spiritual realm, spicing it up with additional personal insults to Andriy. And all that, only to finally shut up because the Last Word is anyways God&#8217;s. And, had Robert (Athanasius) genuinely believed that the last word is God&#8217;s, he wouldn&#8217;t have done all this he&#8217;s done but he would have left it to God, much sooner and earlier.  </p>
<p>Wow, Robert (Athanasius), you certainly did employ variety of methods of attempts of abuse in communications here, religious-ideological and political antigay right can surely be like proud with you, notwithstanding that you, just like those that more or less agree with you, only showed the elementary confusion and lack of solid knowledge of the faith you claim to have and know about. About your desperate attempts to provoke to get Andriy out of tact and your Robert (Athanasius) particular type of trolling here, not even to spend much more words.  </p>
<p>@Andriy, Dear Andriy, may God bless you, I found with God&#8217;s help this site and I am thankful.<br />
Keep up unabashedly the great Inclusive and God and Justice-Loving Christian Orthodox work!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: andre		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33330</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[andre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2014 00:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-33330</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33327&quot;&gt;Robert (Athanasius)&lt;/a&gt;.

Robert (Athanasius),
Enjoy the flat world.  I will take refuge in hope Christ God and the love of my husband.  I truly bid you peace.
Andriy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33327">Robert (Athanasius)</a>.</p>
<p>Robert (Athanasius),<br />
Enjoy the flat world.  I will take refuge in hope Christ God and the love of my husband.  I truly bid you peace.<br />
Andriy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Robert (Athanasius)		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/acceptance-comes-before-revelation#comment-33329</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert (Athanasius)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2014 18:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1177#comment-33329</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Andre,

I have no &quot;sense of superiority&quot; and the only &quot;righteousness&quot; I have is whatever grace Christ bestows upon me. My personal &quot;righteousness&quot; is nothing but filthy rags.

I am not &quot;in Hell&quot; because you and Andriy are in delusion and denial. I&#039;m only showing true concern for your spiritual welfare and everlasting destiny. 

Andriy claims to be Orthodox. When one makes that claim he must back up his arguments with Orthodox sources, and only those which are Canonically Orthodox, and THAT means Canonical Bishops of the Canonical Orthodox Church - not any rebellious, suspended priest who claims to be &quot;Orthodox&quot;.

I won&#039;t waste any more words on Andriy or on you. The two of you may have the last word here on this thread.

But Andriy knows that the very last word on all of this will be had by the Word Himself.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andre,</p>
<p>I have no &#8220;sense of superiority&#8221; and the only &#8220;righteousness&#8221; I have is whatever grace Christ bestows upon me. My personal &#8220;righteousness&#8221; is nothing but filthy rags.</p>
<p>I am not &#8220;in Hell&#8221; because you and Andriy are in delusion and denial. I&#8217;m only showing true concern for your spiritual welfare and everlasting destiny. </p>
<p>Andriy claims to be Orthodox. When one makes that claim he must back up his arguments with Orthodox sources, and only those which are Canonically Orthodox, and THAT means Canonical Bishops of the Canonical Orthodox Church &#8211; not any rebellious, suspended priest who claims to be &#8220;Orthodox&#8221;.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t waste any more words on Andriy or on you. The two of you may have the last word here on this thread.</p>
<p>But Andriy knows that the very last word on all of this will be had by the Word Himself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
