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  • #2479 Reply

    Hi everyone, i am very happy that i found that place!
    I born and raised by a typical orthodox family in Greece. We have the typical relations with church ,not so conservative. My personal struggles as a young man started when i realise that i like men. I dont say gay ,because gay for me is a whole culture,lifestyle etc. On my effort to bring a balance between my faith and my orientation i read many articles, from the most conservative views to the most progressive ( some liberal churches). The most conservative orthodox views are that we live a lie and we need to repent in order to save our souls. Others claim that it is ok to have feelings with men but not sexual acts! the only way is celibacy! So the problem is not the same sex attraction but the sex in general, because we have to grace god in every of our actions and not follow a lustful lifestyle even if we are str8 or gay. But gay sex is not for procreation but for fun. So this kind of fun is a detestable thing according to scriptures . Sex is acceptable only inside marriage.Right? So what is the difference between a gay who have sex with other males ( sex budies) and me who have sex with my parthner? The same sex actions are the same and both are things that are not blessed by a ceremonial action like a religious orthodox marriage. There is a line where if you cross it you are sinner? For me sex is the bond between two partners. But according to some others that bond thing is a lie ,or a way to legalise our same sex attraction.Also lev.18:22 clearly condemns every homosexual behavior. I am totally confused..
    What is your opinion about that?

    I am not a native speaker so hope you understand me.

    #2481 Reply

    I feel people who say sex that is not for procreation or sex between people of the same sex is just for “fun” don’t understand us at all.
    As for a more Orthodox perspective…

    “There are two misunderstandings about marriage which should be rejected in Orthodox dogmatic theology. One is that marriage exists for the sole purpose of procreation. What, then, is the meaning of marriage for those couples who have no children? Are they advised to divorce and remarry? Even in the case of those who have children: are they actually supposed to have relations once a year for the sole purpose of ‘procreation’? This has never been a teaching of the Church.
    On the contrary, according to St John Chrysostom, among the two reasons for which marriage was instituted, namely”
    ‘to bring man to be content with one woman and to have children’,
    it is the first reason which is the most important:
    ‘as for procreation, it is not required absolutely by marriage…’
    In fact, in Orthodox understanding, the goal of marriage is that the spouses should become one, in the image of the Holy Trinity.

    “In the Orthodox Church, there is no understanding of sexual union as something unclean or unholy. This becomes clear when one reads the following prayers from the Orthodox rite of Marriage:
    ‘Bless their marriage, and vouchsafe unto these Thy servants… chastity, mutual love in the bond of peace… Preserve their bed unassailed… Cause their marriage to be honorable. Preserve their bed blameless. Mercifully grant that they may live together in purity…’
    Sexual life is therefore considered compatible with ‘purity’ and ‘chastity’, the latter being, of course, not an abstinence from intercourse but rather a sexual life that is liberated”

    “In Christian marriage, it is not selfish ‘pleasure’ or search for ‘fun’ which is the main driving force: it is rather a quest for mutual sacrifice, for readiness to take the partner’s cross as one’s own, to share one’s whole life with one’s partner. The ultimate goal of marriage is the same as that of every other sacrament, deification of the human nature and union with Christ.”

    I think this can all apply equally to same-sex marriages. Don’t you? 🙂

    ”Marriage is a journey of love. It is the creation of a new human being, a new person, for, as the Gospel says, “the two will be as one flesh” (Mt 19.5; Mk 10.7). God unites two people, and makes them one.
    From this union of two people, who agree to synchronize their footsteps and harmonize the beating of their hearts, a new human being emerges. Through such profound and spontaneous love, the one becomes a presence, a living reality, in the heart of the other. 
    “I am married” means that I cannot live a single day, even a few moments, without the companion of my life. My husband, my wife, is a part of my being, of my flesh, of my soul. He or she complements me. He or she is the thought of my mind. He or she is the reason for which my heart beats.”
    Archimandrite Aimilianos Marriage: the Great Sacrament.

    #2482 Reply

    I totally agree with you maria!I believe that the ‘one flesh ‘ is about two people becoming one as a couple,family ,loving bonds berween them and not only having a child.Marriage for me is about companioship. But it is true within the church the belief that semen is the seed and the woman is the ground. Orgasm or pleasure is the gift of the action called sex for trying to have babies. That seperates humans from animals. So following that logic oral ,anal sex and masturbation are wrong uses of genitalia for both straights or gays. That is not my opinion of course.Is an arguement i heard from many theologians. So following that a straight couple must have sex only in specific positions and a gay couple must stay celibate.thats the goal of sex for many.
    What do we have to respond on that kind of arguments? ?

    #2483 Reply

    I’ve never heard those kind of arguments before :O
    But I’d just say what I said to you, that St John Chrysostom said “‘as for procreation, it is not required absolutely by marriage…’ and that, in fact, in Orthodox understanding, the goal of marriage is that the spouses should become one, in the image of the Holy Trinity.”

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