Home Forums General Discussion Someone called me an iconocalst!

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  • #1528 Reply
    Joe
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    I made a comment to someone today to the effect of:
    “I don’t like computers, I especially don’t love computers, and if I could, I would go from house to house smashing every piece of anything connected to “the web”. (I mean, what an obviously sinister name for it! Doesn’t anyone see this?)…
    So, he said, “you are an iconoclast!” (Obviously not knowing the meaning of the word “icon” as I know it, or the Church history of “iconoclasts”, but still using the word in a correct modern way), so I said, “how so?” And he said, “because you want to smash and destroy everything our culture holds dear and sacred.”
    Exactly. What thing on this techno-earth is EVERYONE required to worship? It’s bigger and more powerful and insidiously evil than any Caeser or Pope from Rome, or any bad old Tsar from Russia.
    Also, I’m fully aware that I am participating in “the beast”… I can neither buy, sell, nor trade without it, and neither can you.
    Very VERY scary.

    #1529 Reply
    Elena
    Guest

    I’d like to smash every cell phone I see people using in public. It’s like a really bad crack addiction. Get a life – go talk to someone face to face – like in the good old days, when it was real and we were not all drama queens/kings. So much self importance!

    #1530 Reply
    Joe
    Guest

    Try to take a cell phone away from a teenager… It’s so sad… My old roommate had to take away her 14 year old daughter’s phone privileges to displine her once… I’ve never seen such histrionics! It’s like you’re trying to take away their oxygen, or worse, their “rights”! I actually ended up destroying the phone, (in a shameful rage, I admit) because she was so out of her mind; you should’ve heard the names she was calling her poor mother… I thought the neighbors were going to call the police. The look on that little girl’s face when I smashed (her mother’s) phone… is something I’ll never forget.

    #1532 Reply
    Katerina
    Guest

    I find the observation “face to face” poignant on this website, as when penetrating, male homosexual intercourse cannot see the face of the other.
    I’m struggling to understand the point of male anal penetrational contact, being, as it is, in an exit, not an entrance. How can this be procreational?
    We all do things for recreation, and that’s also the point of prayer. To reCreate.
    I’m struggling with the passion of gluttony, so I won’t inherit the Kingdom either.
    Lord, Have Mercy.
    Pray for me, a sinner.

    #1534 Reply
    Andriy
    Guest

    Katerina,

    I usually do not respond on this forum, as it is designed for discussion for the readers and visitors of the website, however since my reply to your email bounced back, I am going to make an exception and answer here. Many of the following comments address your response to my reflection entitled “Purging the Faithful”.

    When you state that “I thought everyone had a private life?”, I must ask you, what is private about the way the heterosexual world celebrates, announces, demonstrates and exhibits their life decisions, love life, marriages, etc.? Every magazine, television show, church bulletin, movie, commercial, conversation, includes information about people’s life choices when choosing a life partner. An entire wedding industry has emerged in the western world to facilitate just that. Gay people are no different. We want to announce our happiness, and invite others to celebrate with us. Everyone wants to love and be loved.

    On the issue of sexuality and one’s job or home, have you ever heard of anyone being fired for discussing their wife or husband or not allowed to rent an apartment because they were heterosexual? No! And yet in numerous states, I, and all gay people can be fired simply for just being gay. While most people do not have a second thought when in casual conversation with their boss or work colleagues mentioning their opposite sex spouse, many of us have to go through mental gymnastics in not mentioning our same-sex spouse. Why do I have to remember to say “I went to the movies” instead of “we went to the movies”. Can you pretend not to be straight, even for one day? I have no intention of discussing my sex life with my husband at work, but I should not be fired because I might mention that we went grocery shopping together.

    Under the topic of anal penetration, you are a bit misinformed. First of all it is possible to have anal penetration while facing each other. To make some general statements: Not all gay men participate in anal sex. Lesbians usually do not usually participate in anal sex. Many heterosexual couples participate in and enjoy anal sex. This is not a gay issue.

    Finally, on the issue of procreation. As a parish priest for over 20 years, I performed numerous ceremonies for couples well past the age of procreation. This has always been accepted by the Orthodox Church, as second and third marriages are allowed. Marriage is far more than for procreation; this has always been the theology of the Church.

    Thank you again for commenting.

    I bid you peace,

    Andriy

    #1536 Reply
    Joe
    Guest

    Wow… Those last few posts were all very unexpected… I thought someone might call me dumb for my dislike of computers and associating it with iconoclasm/iconophilia, but OK, I guess this other topic is cool too… Lol
    Yes, it’s true; any travesty or perversion of what God intends for us (in the bedroom or otherwise) is cause for serious concern… However, we don’t need to go to seminary or become a monastic to see that “straight” people are just as ‘at risk’ for misusing each other as “non-straight” people are. It is only my opinion, but I get the feeling that straight folks are even more at risk of buying into a weak and incomplete secular morality… they seem to be encouraged and even expected to openly and shamelessly fornicate with each other, no-holds-barred as long as everyone is 18, and to use birth control and abortion as a means of keeping themselves sexualy appeased without any cumbersome unsexy offspring, and whatever they ‘choose’ is above the critique of any other person living or dead… As long as they’re happy.
    Meanwhile, us gays are supposed to just be happy that we don’t get burned at the stake… No one cares about our sexual health, since our sexuality is by tradition, ‘unhealthy’… Sometimes it seems like straight people think that as soon as they leave more than one gay man alone in a room, it’s all anal-penetration all the time. (Puh-leeeze, We take breaks to watch Antiques Roadshow at least part of the time! Lol)

    It’s not what we consume (dietarily, intellectually, or even sexually) that makes us ‘unclean’, but what we produce.

    When I hear the words of Christ as they are recorded in The Gospels, (especially his answers to some of the questions the disciples asked of Him… questions that can seem pretty silly and inconsequential to us modern folks), I can almost see Him smiling at ALL of us with limitless compassion and understanding, kindly shaking his head and chuckling to himself, saying, (Mark 9:19) “OH UNBELIEVING GENERATION, HOW LONG SHALL I BE WITH YOU? HOW LONG SHALL I PUT UP WITH YOU? BRING HIM (the boy/son afflicted with ‘a dumb spirit’, maybe what we would call epilepsy nowadays) TO ME!”
    There is no flaw that He can’t fix… therefore, let us rejoice and rededicate ourselves to Him everyday, knowing that whatever is wrong with us now will be corrected in due time.
    Rejoice, for night has passed!

    #1537 Reply
    Joe
    Guest

    Let me make this clear without being too graphic:
    When my husband almost died last year from a heart attack, I was certainly NOT thinking, “Gee, if this one bites the dust, I guess I’m gonna have to find another rectum to insert my body part into.”… Yuk!
    I wouldn’t care if he had to live in a plastic bubble for the rest of his life, and I could never even give him a hug ever again. He is my spouse, even if physical contact was permanently 86’d off the menu. Till death parts us.

    #1538 Reply
    Maria
    Guest

    Wow, this conversation certainly took an interesting turn…

    At first I was thinking “whoa, I think I’m a little too young for this conversation” but then, wow.
    That was an extremely inappropriate interruption from Katerina.. Why can’t we just talk in our own space without someone coming in and saying things like that? (And what is the straight/homophobic obsession with anal sex? Katerina comments that the anus is an exit not an entrance, but you could argue that the vagina is also an exit, for menstrual blood and children)

    Anyway, yikes.

    On the original topic, I would have to use a quote:
    Many complain against technology.
    Many accuse modern technology for all the woes in the world.
    Is technology really to blame, or those who create technology and use it?
    Is a wooden cross to blame if somebody crucifies someone on it?
    Is a hammer to blame if a neighbor breaks his neighbors skull?
    Technology does not feel good or evil.
    The same pipes can be used for drinking water or the sewer.
    Evil does not come from unfeeling, dead technology, but from the dead hearts of people.
    – St. Nikolai Velimirovich

    #1540 Reply
    James
    Guest

    That was a very useful quote from St. Nikolai Velmirovich. Thank you, Maria, for posting it.

    I’ll admit to finding it quite annoying to be stuck beside someone who talks non-stop on their cellphone on the train, to see a table-full of lunch eaters at a restaurant all chatting away into their phones while ignoring each other, or to find myself walking behind someone who’s creeping along while punching out text messages. (Did I mention the bicyclist texter who almost ran me over?) But/So I have to keep reminding myself to say a Jesus prayer and not judge others whose motivations and trials will always be known only to them and God.

    As it turns out, my partner and I keep our cellphones open (other than in church, concert or theater) since we may get a call at even the most unsociable time from my mother-in-law, whose Alzheimer’s has progressed so that she can no longer dial us and has to depend on a nurse or visitor dropping in to her room at odd times during the day to do that for her. And there’s the I’m from Driftwood video by the deaf guy who tells in passing of communicating with his hearing dinner date via text messaging across the table at a restaurant. http://imfromdriftwood.com/richard_mesich/

    #1541 Reply
    Joe
    Guest

    That is very true… Machines cannot be evil. There is also a lot of good that comes from using technology, such as this website! I guess what really bothers me is the feeling of being required to use it, such as when voting or filling out a job application.
    Another example of technology that I find upsetting and frustrating is the self check-out machines in the grocery store. (I live in the US; do they have these things in other countries?) Besides replacing a job that could support two families, they are just really annoying, especially if you’re buying produce or medicine or alcohol.

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