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	Comments on: Oikonomia	</title>
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	<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia</link>
	<description>Orthodox and gay</description>
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		<title>
		By: Georges		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33255</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Georges]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jan 2014 15:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1120#comment-33255</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In my opinion, the best example of the letter of the law, the spiritual meaning thereof, and economy is the following. Hebrews were forbidden to get Gentile spouses. This is what is said in Deuteronomy 7. And we find the litteral application of it in Ezdras ch. 9-10. Now, there&#039;s a counter-example: Ruth. And this counter-example found its place in the canon of the books of the Bible.

Juste one clarification. Non-Chalcedonians are in no way monophysite. Nor the Church of East or Nestorius have been dyoprosopite. «Monophysite» and «Nestorian» are pejorative terms applied to people who have no Christological heresy per se.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion, the best example of the letter of the law, the spiritual meaning thereof, and economy is the following. Hebrews were forbidden to get Gentile spouses. This is what is said in Deuteronomy 7. And we find the litteral application of it in Ezdras ch. 9-10. Now, there&#8217;s a counter-example: Ruth. And this counter-example found its place in the canon of the books of the Bible.</p>
<p>Juste one clarification. Non-Chalcedonians are in no way monophysite. Nor the Church of East or Nestorius have been dyoprosopite. «Monophysite» and «Nestorian» are pejorative terms applied to people who have no Christological heresy per se.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33223</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2014 15:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1120#comment-33223</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dear Noel Warren,
some people are paedophiles too -THEY- need to get over it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Noel Warren,<br />
some people are paedophiles too -THEY- need to get over it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: andre		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[andre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Oct 2013 13:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1120#comment-33184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33178&quot;&gt;Rdr. John&lt;/a&gt;.

Dear John,

Thank you for your kind comment and support of the website. I will take your advice and think about expanding upon the idea of using oikonomia as a gateway to allowing same-sex marriage in the Orthodox Church.  Surely, I will be shut down by several &quot;canon law experts&quot; in the Church, but that is because they are closed to the idea of an expression of gay people in the Church. 
You bring up an interesting topic about consummated marriages before crowning. When I was an active parish priest, I used to meet with couples wanting to be married in the Church and we met for several sessions. At the first session, I usually took the &quot;information&quot; names, addresses, baptismal dates and places etc. More than half of the time the couple was already living together. 
Your advice for the Church to approach these issues and the issue of same-sex relationship pragmatically is worthy of discussion.  For me it is simply an issue of the dignity of creation.  God created me as a gay man with the blessing to love and be loved by another man. 
Finally, it is never too late to pray for, hope for and want love. It is the essence of our faith.  The love God has for us and we for Him, is also demonstrated in couples and families. 
I bid you peace.  Please stay in touch,
Andriy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33178">Rdr. John</a>.</p>
<p>Dear John,</p>
<p>Thank you for your kind comment and support of the website. I will take your advice and think about expanding upon the idea of using oikonomia as a gateway to allowing same-sex marriage in the Orthodox Church.  Surely, I will be shut down by several &#8220;canon law experts&#8221; in the Church, but that is because they are closed to the idea of an expression of gay people in the Church.<br />
You bring up an interesting topic about consummated marriages before crowning. When I was an active parish priest, I used to meet with couples wanting to be married in the Church and we met for several sessions. At the first session, I usually took the &#8220;information&#8221; names, addresses, baptismal dates and places etc. More than half of the time the couple was already living together.<br />
Your advice for the Church to approach these issues and the issue of same-sex relationship pragmatically is worthy of discussion.  For me it is simply an issue of the dignity of creation.  God created me as a gay man with the blessing to love and be loved by another man.<br />
Finally, it is never too late to pray for, hope for and want love. It is the essence of our faith.  The love God has for us and we for Him, is also demonstrated in couples and families.<br />
I bid you peace.  Please stay in touch,<br />
Andriy</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dee		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1120#comment-33183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Father,
my question regarding the &#039;combination&#039; of the Holiness to which we are called and Gay marriage, (for those interested in the matter of Holiness above all) is this:
How can someone be &quot;one with Christ&quot;, &quot;carry His members&quot; (especially through Holy Communion) and practice sodomy (whether as a heterosexual in marriage or a homosexual - even in marriage, if that were ever allowed)?
I could not even allow myself to forget Him in favour of a fairly innocent massage after Holy Communion...
Wouldn&#039;t I need to confess sodomy, whether as a straight or gay practitioner?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Father,<br />
my question regarding the &#8216;combination&#8217; of the Holiness to which we are called and Gay marriage, (for those interested in the matter of Holiness above all) is this:<br />
How can someone be &#8220;one with Christ&#8221;, &#8220;carry His members&#8221; (especially through Holy Communion) and practice sodomy (whether as a heterosexual in marriage or a homosexual &#8211; even in marriage, if that were ever allowed)?<br />
I could not even allow myself to forget Him in favour of a fairly innocent massage after Holy Communion&#8230;<br />
Wouldn&#8217;t I need to confess sodomy, whether as a straight or gay practitioner?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Noel Warren		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Noel Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Oct 2013 11:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1120#comment-33180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dear James and all Orthodox Christians,

           SOME PEOPLE ARE GAY.
               
             GET OVER IT,

                         LOVE,
                                      GOD.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear James and all Orthodox Christians,</p>
<p>           SOME PEOPLE ARE GAY.</p>
<p>             GET OVER IT,</p>
<p>                         LOVE,<br />
                                      GOD.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Oct 2013 03:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1120#comment-33179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greetings, 

Concerning the issue of marriage in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church. 

The apparent stance of this issue of blessing a&quot; marriage&quot; between two members of the same sex is  in my opinion a non issue,  and so it should be,because it is of no real benefit to the Church or to the individual.
The Church from its very beginnings I believe knows, by the inspiration &#038; guidance of the Holy Spirit,   that &quot;marriage&quot;  between a man and a woman, is right and God Glorifying,  as that kind of , marriage, just exemplifies, Christ as bridegroom and the Church as the bride. And for a very good reason.
Honestly folks,  he gave each the right parts so that through that intimate union they would multiply. Without that there would be no humans or any animal of its kind for that matter.

Having said that, it also, must be understood both by the Holy Orthodox Church , and each and every individual of its members,,,, that GOD KNOWS ALL, AND HAS MERCY AND COMPASSION ON ALL, HE UNDERSTANDS EVERTHING. HE is Above the Church at all times

Having stated that, I also, would suggest that the Church, is not infallible, especially since it is both Earthly and Heavenly at the same time. And  ESPECIALLY since,,in its employ,ie Priest, are all kinds of individuals from all kinds of backgrounds and conditions, as well are the laity in that same boat, And Hopefully ALL are becoming  transformed by Gods grace and our participation, into Gods likeness. God help us! 

To summarize, I would like to suggest that we should leave things as they are, and not try to change it, keeping in mind that if sometimes it may seem that the Church may or may not be COOPERATIVE, on an issue we must TRUST in that decision as coming from GOD who knows best. However,  Also, know,,however, if  one of its members shows ignorance and or behaves in a  malicious manner towards any individual member and places there own judgment on that individual,, just always keep this in mind,,,,, that God sees and hears that. ALL WILL BE JUDGED.

GOD HIMSELF,, Blesses, ALL who come to Him with sincere Hope, Faith and Love. Both in THE CHURCH ,corporately, and everywhere individually at all TIMES and ANYTIME. IN ANY AND ALL CONDITIONS AND, OR STATES OF MATURITY.
 
Love and peace to you!!
James]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings, </p>
<p>Concerning the issue of marriage in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church. </p>
<p>The apparent stance of this issue of blessing a&#8221; marriage&#8221; between two members of the same sex is  in my opinion a non issue,  and so it should be,because it is of no real benefit to the Church or to the individual.<br />
The Church from its very beginnings I believe knows, by the inspiration &amp; guidance of the Holy Spirit,   that &#8220;marriage&#8221;  between a man and a woman, is right and God Glorifying,  as that kind of , marriage, just exemplifies, Christ as bridegroom and the Church as the bride. And for a very good reason.<br />
Honestly folks,  he gave each the right parts so that through that intimate union they would multiply. Without that there would be no humans or any animal of its kind for that matter.</p>
<p>Having said that, it also, must be understood both by the Holy Orthodox Church , and each and every individual of its members,,,, that GOD KNOWS ALL, AND HAS MERCY AND COMPASSION ON ALL, HE UNDERSTANDS EVERTHING. HE is Above the Church at all times</p>
<p>Having stated that, I also, would suggest that the Church, is not infallible, especially since it is both Earthly and Heavenly at the same time. And  ESPECIALLY since,,in its employ,ie Priest, are all kinds of individuals from all kinds of backgrounds and conditions, as well are the laity in that same boat, And Hopefully ALL are becoming  transformed by Gods grace and our participation, into Gods likeness. God help us! </p>
<p>To summarize, I would like to suggest that we should leave things as they are, and not try to change it, keeping in mind that if sometimes it may seem that the Church may or may not be COOPERATIVE, on an issue we must TRUST in that decision as coming from GOD who knows best. However,  Also, know,,however, if  one of its members shows ignorance and or behaves in a  malicious manner towards any individual member and places there own judgment on that individual,, just always keep this in mind,,,,, that God sees and hears that. ALL WILL BE JUDGED.</p>
<p>GOD HIMSELF,, Blesses, ALL who come to Him with sincere Hope, Faith and Love. Both in THE CHURCH ,corporately, and everywhere individually at all TIMES and ANYTIME. IN ANY AND ALL CONDITIONS AND, OR STATES OF MATURITY.</p>
<p>Love and peace to you!!<br />
James</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rdr. John		</title>
		<link>https://orthodoxandgay.com/oikonomia#comment-33178</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rdr. John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orthodoxandgay.com/?p=1120#comment-33178</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for this brief treatment of the subject.  I hope in the future that you&#039;ll be able to expand on it.  I&#039;ve long thought that the Orthodox practice of divorce and re-marriage was rather liberal, though I realize that it isn&#039;t strictly my business.  However, the numbers of divorces and re-marriages coupled with mixed marriages and, let&#039;s be honest, consummated relationships before marriage indicate a very strong liberalized practice in the Church.  For good or ill, in this day and age, it is simply untenable to be exceedingly strict in practice.  I&#039;ve thought for some time that the Church might well take up the &quot;cause&quot; of gay Christians with the same pragmatic attitude.  Certainly, in my life, I&#039;ve recently come to the rather strong and confident decision that being single is doing greater damage to my soul&#039;s health than being in relationship where someone other than ME is receiving my energy and focus.  In my mid-40s, I hope it&#039;s not too late to &quot;redeem the time.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this brief treatment of the subject.  I hope in the future that you&#8217;ll be able to expand on it.  I&#8217;ve long thought that the Orthodox practice of divorce and re-marriage was rather liberal, though I realize that it isn&#8217;t strictly my business.  However, the numbers of divorces and re-marriages coupled with mixed marriages and, let&#8217;s be honest, consummated relationships before marriage indicate a very strong liberalized practice in the Church.  For good or ill, in this day and age, it is simply untenable to be exceedingly strict in practice.  I&#8217;ve thought for some time that the Church might well take up the &#8220;cause&#8221; of gay Christians with the same pragmatic attitude.  Certainly, in my life, I&#8217;ve recently come to the rather strong and confident decision that being single is doing greater damage to my soul&#8217;s health than being in relationship where someone other than ME is receiving my energy and focus.  In my mid-40s, I hope it&#8217;s not too late to &#8220;redeem the time.&#8221;</p>
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